Rogue to Redemption

 

Q: Great play on words. When did that pop into your head?

 

TS: A couple of years ago. I thought it was kind of cheesy and didn’t want to use it. I try to come up with something original, to be clever but then you don’t to be too clever but then everybody liked it.

 

Q: The songs on Ballad of a Misspent Youth were born out of the frustration of having your previous album shelved, cancelled tours, you turning your life around, etc. Was there any particular set of circumstances that fed the songs on the new album?

 

TS: I don’t know. There was no label involved in these songs and what I mean by that, is that sometimes there is pressure on you, people saying you need to do this or you need to do that but this was just pure. Ballad was that way as well, no pressure as opposed to if you have an A&R team saying ‘You have to do this to be coo or ‘You need to do what’s hot.’ In my mind, I’ve always wanted to do a trilogy or records, where they have characters in them and this is the middle of the hero’s tale. Take The Long Way was the last song, written in fifteen minutes and then some of them took two or three years to piece together. You have ideas and you kind of, wait and see because I try and think of albums as a whole, which nobody does anymore.

 

Q: Are you a prolific writer?

 

TS: I want to be but it’s so hard to be creative and come up with good ideas. I have this little studio in Nashville and write there and produce with other people to make a living as well as doing my stuff because you know, it’s hard to make a living, just doing my music as it’s such a small niche. I just think that if you show up every day, sometimes you can just feel - and I’m not a spiritual person – you can almost feel like an entity come into the room and these ideas are just gifted on you. When you get that, you get those blasts, you don’t think about it too much, you just think, ‘Ok, there it is.’ I don’t know how or why they come when they do but you have to show up every day, a lot.

 

Q: I know exactly how you feel. Being a writer as well, albeit a journalist, sometimes I spend hours looking at a blank screen and then one night something will wake me up at 2:54am or whatever and the stuff floods in.

 

TS: Yeah! I’ve wasted a lot more time trying to write than actually writing. (smiles)

 

Q: Anything that didn’t make the album?

 

TS: Yeah. There’s a song called Runnin’ with The Wild Ones that was recorded for this album. It’s actually a re-record from the shelved album I did but there are re-record clauses and all that bullshit and I decided at the last minute to leave it off because I didn’t want to jeopardise this album. It was literally about a month before the release, I called the company and I crapped it; I just had a bad feeling that the ex-label was going to try and fuck with me.

 

Q: When you talk about writing, you gesture as if you are at the piano. Is that where you write?

TS: I like to write on the piano. I like to sit there and feel like all your melodies are right there. You can play with two hands and tinker out a melody line. I’m not good at it so I can still make mistakes but I kind of fumble on to cool stuff.

 

Q: The bonus track on the Japanese release is a reimagining of Little Renegade. Which style did you write that in – acoustic or electric - and when did the idea come to you to do it the other way?

 

TS: I’m a big fan of all kinds of things and I just really wanted to do something different. It’s a bit like that Runnin’ Down a Dream documentary where Petty was working with Jeff Lynne and he said that they couldn’t get the song and that they came back the next morning and Jeff had changed all the chords but kept the melody. It was like kind of like an exercise and I thought ‘What if I make this a minor key? Change the tempo…change the feel, change everything and see if it works.’ I tried it with several of the songs on here, to see if I could change the entire vibe and that one worked the best - I’m always trying different things that take me up avenues. This sounded good, like it could be on a soundtrack in a movie or something and the thing was, to do something orchestral with it. We went into the studio and we tracked all of those drums, one at a time, building them up, a Phil Spector kind of thing and it was a really cool exercise in production.

 

Q: Which others did you try before settling on Little Renegade?

TS: Glorybound and I tried a piano version of Take the Long Way but it just wasn’t hitting.

 

Q: It’s a great example of the same song having different interpretations to the listener. What I hear in the Rock version is you telling yourself not to let go, to keep that fighting spirit you always had and the reimagined version with its military drumming, I hear as a kid in the civil war trying to reason with himself why he’s still fighting. Do you, as the writer, see the two versions differently?

 

TS: I do. When I write things, a lot of them have a deeper meaning too me and the trick is to try to figure out how to make it palatable for another person. I also need to organise ideas because I want to say complex things very simply and that really doesn’t work in Rock ‘n’ Roll. It worked before, to be dumb in Rock ‘n’ Roll worked and still works and there’s nothing wrong with that but now I’m like ‘How can I do something different?’ That song could be about suicide if you think about it. Creative people can be very sad and have depression issues and I’ve had a lot of friends kill themselves. You know, the industry is relentless to anybody who is a true creator, they want you to follow things and a lot of my friends just gave up, work jobs…it could be about them. All those things.   

 

Q: It’s well documented what you went through but the wheels are rolling now. France, Spain, Japan and experience has taught you to not take stuff for granted. Do you finally feel you’re getting where you’d like to be?

 

TS: I think I’m traumatised – and I man that playfully – from the bullshit that I don’t get too excited. I honestly, just try to stay humble and level, work hard and try to do better. At this point, I try to be the best, most honourable person and have no expectations. Musicians have egos and easily self-sabotage, you know, all that ‘’Fuck you!’ shit but I find it better now to be calm and live the now.

 

Tuk: the man behind the music

 

Q: As bad as it was back in those days, you starting out, sleeping on club floors, no money, etc, are kids missing out by not getting bands together in the garage and hustling for gigs, by doing everything on computers in their bedrooms nowadays?

 

TS: This is a super complex question because you cannot control technology and the way of the world. You can’t get booking agents, it’s more expensive to tour and there are less Rock clubs; it’s hard for me to tour right now! Right now, Rock ‘n’ Roll has sort of become a hobby for rich kids because it’s very expensive. It’s expensive to record, to promote to tour and a lot of labels look at metrics, the steams, the views, the followers, the likes, before they look at the art. Now, if you are going to spend all of your time on your phone making skits and context, your art is going to suffer because you are not experiencing. Too me, I feel that getting out there and doing it in real time, trial by fire, builds character, the same with anything! I’m still a believer in the song over metrics but look dude, you can’t be an old man ‘Get off my lawn!’ either because it works. I have to do social media and me and my manager argue about it all the time. It’s how far are you willing to go and what your priorities are. Are you a content creator or a musician?
 

Q: So as a musician, do you see social media as a necessary evil or a useful tool?

 

TS: Nothing is all bad or all good and social media has amazing things. I’m friends with Rick Nielsen on social media and he can message likes my stuff; Michael Des Barres from Silverhead, Ginger from the The Wildhearts as well. You know, my heroes, the songwriters, we’re friends and that would not really happen pre-internet so it does create opportunities but what also happens is that it creates a lot of pollution with silly trends. Use this song, do this, use this skit, etc and I think that’s what’s making Rock ‘n’ Roll suffer.

 

Q: Is that damaging to the future of Rock?

 

TS: I think we need more rebellious spirits, more people to go against the grain. Rebellion means something different in every generation and I think now, it means to be more focused, to be an individual and do your own thing. Too me, that feels more heroic than hedonism, which has already been done. I’ve been part of that and it got me nowhere.

 

Q: While we are on the subject of social media, should entertainers stay out of voicing their vote for a politician?

 

TS: That’s another double-edged sword. I grew up loving Joe Strummer with The Clash and they were very political; they had a lot of social commentary. Now, with the internet, every idiot has a voice. Are the entertainers really passionate about the next President or are they just virtue signalling? I don’t know, you have to make up your own mind.

 

Q: As you said, you grew up listening to The Clash, Sex Pistols, etc, a lot of that was social commentary but it wasn’t endorsing someone, it was anti-establishment. Your music isn’t that though it’s just good time Rock ‘n’ Roll.

 

TS: I don’t want anyone to feel alienated. There is too much divisiveness and tribalism already in the world. I have my own beliefs as I know everybody else does but they don’t belong on our stage.

 

Q: Going back to music, you just mentioned Silverhead earlier...

 

TK I’m a huge Silverhead fan. I have a Japanese 7” that I got on a tour. It’s one of my rarest records and I was able to follow him on Instagram or whatever and he messaged me and said he liked my stuff and we’re buddies online now. He’s an unsung hero, in-between Mick Jagger and Stiv Bators, Rock and Punk.

Q: Being a Thin Lizzy fan and a Sex Pistols fan as well, I presume you heard The Greedies?

 

TS: Of course! Yeah. We were going to cover their Christmas song.

 

Q: You should. Moving on, you produce other bands as well: what’s your criteria for taking on a band as a producer?

 

TS:  I like challenging things. Obviously, I have passion projects because those projects feed your soul but then there are money projects which I take on to make a living. Nobody is getting rich off Rock ‘n’ Roll right now, especially people like me but either way, to be able to create and help other artists is very fulfilling. People need help. I’ve had mentors that have helped me and to come in and create with people, to see them learn something from me, is very fulfilling on a soul level. As a job, it’s perfect but it’s a freelance lifestyle and I would not recommend it to anybody because there is no security. I wish there were a lot more Rock ‘n’ Roll bands I could produce but there’s not much going on. In Nashville, I did some Country stuff and I realised that if you don’t really love something, it’s not going to work. Country music is fine but I’m not as versed in the vernacular, in the same way that they wouldn’t be able to make a Rock record like me so I decided to just leave Country to them and be hyper-specialised.

 

Q: How do you chill-out on a day off.

 

TS: Dude, I’ve partied and travelled and drank so now I am channelling everything into music - and it feels good! I’m in the studio, I love engineering so I watch Pro Tools tutorials, just doing music stuff, every day. I have to channel all that or I’ll just go off the rails. Off the fucking rails man! (laughs)

 

Q: Do you collect anything?

TS: Records, vintage vinyl. I like vintage clothes and original Rock ‘n’ Roll nick-nacks. If I find something from that era and can bring it into my space, it wears off on me. 

 

Q: On reflection Tuk, everything you’ve been through, in your youth, with Biters, all the madness, do you think you had to go through that to become the person/musician you are today or were they wasted years?

 

TS: Probably a little bit of both. When we were partying, I don’t remember a lot of shit because we were just having a good time but then when it got serious and the egos kicked in…don’t do it, it’s just a bad road to go down. Now, I’m always trying to figure out, how to be a good songwriter, that’s my main goal. I want to touch people in the same way that some of my favourite people touched mine. Maybe those experiences helped me do that because it gave me a perspective that other people don’t have. I probably asked for that though so I brought all this on myself…which is fucked up if you think about it.

 

Q: I think it’s quite philosophical. You’ve critically distanced yourself from your own life.

TS: Yeah, maybe. Don’t get me wrong though. The Restless Hearts still have a lot of fun. I have to sober guys in the band now so no one is trying to out-drink each other all night and the dynamic is so much better. We’ve just been on tour and I laughed so hard my guts hurt!

 

Q: Tuk, this has been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Next time I’ll take you record shopping.

 

TS: I’d like that. Thanks dude.